Bottle Return
My last analogy got some terrible reviews …
And for good reason.
So,
Let’s try this one on for size.
Hopefully it’s a wee bit better !! 🙂
__________________________
Say we’ve got a glass bottle of Coca-Cola …
It looks like this:
We can tell it’s Coke because we recognize the shape and form of the bottle,
And since it’s in a glass bottle,
We can see what’s inside the bottle and recognize that it looks like Coca-Cola.
Now let’s say …
We have another bottle of soda,
This time,
Fanta Orange.
It looks like this:
We can tell it’s Fanta Orange because it says FANTA on the side,
And since it’s also in a glass bottle,
We can see inside that it looks orange and reasonably conclude it’s Fanta Orange.
Bottle 1 – Coke.
Bottle 2 – Fanta Orange.
Simple, right?
Now let’s say …
That during the bottling process,
Some Fanta Orange was put in a Coca-Cola bottle.
Here’s my question …
Would a Coke bottle with the Fanta Orange inside be …
A bottle of Coke or a bottle of Fanta Orange?
Now me …
I tend to think that what’s inside the bottle is what counts.
So I’d say a Coca-Cola bottle with Fanta Orange on the inside is a bottle of Fanta Orange,
And can be just as satisfying as a bottle of Fanta Orange which was always in a Fanta Orange bottle.
But that’s just me,
I’m probably biased. 🙂
Though unless a person is choosing to be a hypocrit,
There are some people out there that will argue …
Vehemently,
Passionately, and …
While quoting their interpretation of religious source,
That what’s inside the bottle doesn’t matter.
If it’s in a Coke bottle,
It’s Coke.
No ifs, ands, or butts. (That’s an intentional misspelling kids. :))
Understanding my transsexualism is pretty much as simple as that …
If you believe the original bottle determines whether it’s Coke or not,
You’ll never get me.
If you believe it is what’s inside that makes the difference,
Well, you still might never get me,
But you’ve got a much better chance of it ! 🙂
And just for the record …
I think being Fanta Orange rocks. 🙂
Damn, I forgot! Sorry!
AMY ROCKS!
Oh my god, Aims. If you keep posting things like this I won’t be so disappointed that you now take more time between posts! Definately an analogy I’m going to steal!!!
made me spill my diet coke Yod. Now Claire’ll have to get me a new one.
Sometimes Amy’s the one between “ready” and “fire!”.
wait, who’s Amy, again?
^_^
Oh yea,
AMY ROCKS!!
🙂
OK kiddies, it’s a analogy…deep breaths now…we are not looking at “wall tiles as if it contained a secret formula for turning grape nuts into platinum”. Props to Greg on well thought out comments and to Sianna for her opinion, which in this country, is still OK to express. Bottom line, Amy is Amy…period, no matter how you catogorize, rationalize,hypnotize,justify and compartmentalize.
A,where does Vernors fit into this analogy??? 🙂
“Why should they? Why should anyone?”
uh, because the point of the anology was to explain TSism? except that it only explains it to people who are familar with tsism? Jane+Joe Doe won’t see a fanta product in the coke bottle, they’ll see something _wrong_.
this is simple a matter of semantics:
the point being that gender is _not transparent_. One cannot _see_ it. That touches on the larger dillema, explaining the enormity of gender phenomena to a random passerby with a simple anology that they get at the first go. Too few people will stop and consider it, in my experience, they’ll see a miscolored Coke, make a quick, possibly unforgiving judgement, and move on.
((the anology still sucks Aims. 😛 ))
Re: Sianna at March 11, 2005 09:09 AM
“…by choosing an analogy where the difference is transparently obvious you miss the inherent reality that no Jane and Joe off the street know who’s trans, who’s not, and more importantly, _why_ just by looking at them…but they wouldn’t go “aha!, that’s really a Coke!”
Why should they? Why should anyone?
Sianna, Kafka’s cockroach in “Metamorphasis” as a literary device was successful. As philosophy it sucked.
Why do “…Jane and Joe off the street… ” have to KNOW who is trans and who is not? Why investigate the issue personally and person by person unless you are thirsty and all you want is something to drink, and anything will slake that thirst?
Furthermore, Kafka’s Gregor cockroach died by itself – nobody killed him. And he did not die of neglect – his family took care of him. True, he could not go OUT, but that was a function of kafka’s melieu – we know that if he went out he would have been destroyed, if not by the populace, than by the police or the military. They would have killed first and asked questions (justified themselves) later.
WHICH IS THE ENTIRE POINT – WHY NOT ask QUESTIONS FIRST – “Is this a soda or a bottle of potassium cyanide?” – and then THINK about the answer and THEN just go about your business?
Now SIANNA (got that spelling right, did I?), I do truly and fully understand that this is entirely theoretical – idealistic, if you will. But I am very proud to say that this idealism is active, at work and in action in my own houshold.
Example: My parents’ parents would not permit non-whites or non-heteros into their family, their house, or their neighborhood, and they didn’t like the children of divorced and remarried couples – they were bastards. My parents didn’t have that great a problem with non-whites, and a friend who was the product of a remarried divorced couple was welcome in our house (“poor boy”), (non-heteros were still out), but we had to talk about “my black friends” Don or Kevin S***** or Peter C*** before they came over to our house – which they did.
My daughters, on the other hand, don’t even SEE the issues, For example, early this year my daughter Victoria had some friends over because they needed to “reherse” some “improv” they were doing on stage that coming Saturday at their High School (yea, I didn’t get that one either). I went downstairs about 4:pm to find out what all the commotion was about, and found a pile of five teenage girls and a guy wrestling on the floor of the living room, whooping it up like there was no tomorrow….
…my daughter was the only white girl there, and it turned out that the guy was the “director” and one of the four out gays in her class.
The point? She never mentioned it. Not a word. Not about her “black” friend or her (mainland) Indian friend or her Asian friend or her Latina friend, or her gay friend. These were non-issues to her, which was even more different (one step up? one step away?) from her sister, to whom my sister M’s trans was enough of an issue – academically – for her to do a short sociology paper on M for college.
But hell, that daugter (Alexandra) went to the gay prom with a girlfriend she really likes – is she gay too? Is she bi? I don’t know. Why should I care? The only thing I care about is, “is my dauhghter happy?” oes.
Now, before you bring up the “reality of the street” issue, let me say I am VERY aware of the reality of the street. I am VERY aware of the trans-women who have died because they were trans. I am also acutely aware of the number of women who have died because they were women, and the number of black people and asians and gays who have died or suffered just because of what (or who?) they are. This is why my daughter Alexandra has learned to fight like a hurricane and my daughter Victoria also knows very well how to take care of herself – how, I cannot in this forum say. Unfortunately, I have never been able to convince my dear wife to learn how to defend herself – I think she is a Quaker at heart. TEHO.
If you live your life splitting hairs, DIFFERENTIATING, if you will, you will live in fear, and you will never find peace.
(On thinking about it, being a nascient writer, maybe that’s what you want; then you will always have something to write about.)
But if you live your life the way you would like to be treated by others – with compassion, insight, empathy, understanding and acceptance – you have nothing to fear.
You may not LIKE what happens living that way- I don’t LIKE being estranged from half my family and some of my few friends because of my feelings for and my support of my sister – but I needn’t fear it. I don’t LIKE what the way some people treat my sister. But I just must be willing to defend my position and then accept the consequences.
Life is a lot easier that way.
Hey, lets take some Fanta and color it brownish/black, like coke. It still tastes like Fanta, but we put it in the coke bottle, and it is still marketed like Fanta. Is it still Fanta?
I think so. It’s not coke until it’s coke.
BTW, based on Amy’s “play nice in my sandbox” rule, maybe we should take this away from AmyNews. I amd at [email protected]. if you would like that.
Hi Amy!
At some point the “Fanta label” is placed on the “coke bottle” which shall represent the transition process. Then one day, it is just a bottle of Fanta, regardless of the minor exterior difference.
Over time… the original Fanta bottle will even appear to look wrong.
Aleta
As I said,
“Bright new packaging..same quality product.”
And no, you still can’t use it…
delia
Just kidding! I thought it was a great post. Props.
A, can you rewrite the post with caffiene free diet coke? I think then I’ll get it.
by choosing an anology where the difference is transparently obvious you miss the inherent reality that no Jane and Joe off the street know who’s trans, who’s not, and more importantly, _why_ just by looking at them. They might be able to clock what they’re looking at, but they wouldn’t go “aha!, that’s really a Coke!”
never mind the color blind among us, where the analogy, dare I say, might “fall flat?”
and yes GHF, I AM picky. Amy can lax off if she wants, but she can’t hurt herself by staying on her toes, and for that matter, niether can I. To be fair, my shoe metaphor works no better than her coke bottle analogy. In fact the closest analogy I’ve seen is Kafka’s metamorphosis character… but a cockroach is a billion times worse visual than a coke bottle.
That truly is a wonderful analogy! I will be quoting it in my journal, if that’s OK. Attributed to you of course, but I don’t think AMY ROCKS is quite strong enough, would AMY TOTALLY ROCKS be OK? 😀
I may have had a coke bottle, but they noticed and called me Fanta, or something that started else that started with an “fa”….
awwwwwwww…
You goofball…its so zen of you to say that.
Ya know that A is just trying to ‘splain the whole T thing to an audience that might just not get it like you do…
Anyways…my bb rawks…don’t he?
Anne at March 10, 2005 04:48 PM
…I doesn’t matter if it’s empty – it’s just glass when it’s all used up, and goes into the same recycling bin as every other glass container.
Sianna at March 10, 2005 07:45 PM
You’re looking to hard. You are obsessing over the differences. Instead, rather, try to find the similarities. Hell, without the industrial colouring, they are both transparent anyway. The same goes for the taste – take out the flavorings and the colour and you still end up with equally transparent flavorless beverages.
What I mean is, why look at the colour or worry about the taste when they are both the same drink. If you worry NOW about how the bottle is labeled and capped and what the color or flavor of the contents look or tate like, then you will never, EVER be satisfied, because it will never be good enough.
Just drink it. If it doesn’t kill you (and it won’t) then why obsess?
Amy at March 10, 2005 08:49 PM
exactly.
Quite a few people have made it clear to me that my “inability” to discern between fanta and coke in the wrong bottles makes me at least a strange duck, and at worst an “hereticical barbarian” (that’s a quote from a family member).
Nobody seems to quite understand that from my point of view it makes no difference what I drink when I am thirsty – as long as my second sibling is there, I’m happy.
Fanta in a coke bottle? Feh. It’s still a bottle, it’s still soda, and it’s still there. I like that part. Because I like soda. eos.
btw, “Amy Rocks.”
Not to ruin my reputation of putting absolutely no thought into the krap I post …
But I actually deliberately chose using glass bottles instead of cans in this analogy.
I wanted to make it simple and easy to see what’s inside … because in my opinion, it doesn’t really take much effort to get to know someone and see what’s really inside them … what makes them tick … it’s fairly simple and easy to do if a person chooses to make the effort instead of prejudge.
Oh wait, who am I kidding?
I didn’t put any thought like that into this post !! 🙂
*thinks about transparency*
Help me understand how that changes things. I’m slow…
*sighs, grabs the bottles, smashes them over Amy’s head*
they really should revoke your analogy liscense.
the difference is _transparency._
Thanks Alice !! You can be darn sure I won’t “accidentally” delete this comment of yours !! LOL 🙂
Hey … that’s pretty funny KKL !! LOL
Oh sure … quote the analogy freely, just please try to work in the phrase “Amy Rocks” at some point … it really has no relevance to quoting the analogy, I just like to ask people to work it into their normal, everyday conversations on a regular basis ! 🙂
I like the analogy. Brava.
If the bottle is emptied out and no longer contains either Fanta or Coke then was it a Fanta Bottle or a Coke Bottle?
Very nice analogy.
FANTAstic analogy!
I’ve never quite heard it put this way sis…but its just a wonderfully easy, understandable way of getting to the heart of the matter.
Mind if I quote you on this?
Thanks Marcia ! 🙂
Remember though,
Fanta Orange comes in all sorts of different container sizes …
There’s nothing wrong with being a keg of Fanta Orange,
It’s just more Fanta Orange for the lovin’ !!
Way to go Natalie … that’s a perfect extension of the analogy !! 🙂
I think it’d probably be recognized as Fanta Orange, but also as being the product of a mistake along the way at some point. It might actually be considered unique and special, like many other mistakes occasionally are, but hey … that’s asking for way too much. 🙂
I consider myself Fanta Orange in a Coca-Cola bottle that has underwent some extensive work to make it look more like a typical Fanta Orange bottle.
Though let’s be real … I’m anything but your typical bottle of Fanta Orange !! 🙂
Aims,
You rock! That it is THE best description of being TS as I have ever seen.
Here’s my prob, I’m definitely Fanta orange, and am struggling to accept my orangeness, because I’ve been poured into a container the size of full keg of beer (in this analogy). It is much harder to shift the appearance of your container when you’re keg shaped than when you’re a flat out gorgeous, slender bottle of Coke.
So there you have it!
Marcia (aka trying to be thoroughly orange)
I like the analogy, it makes good sense to me and I will for sure store it in the grey mass for later use.
Just a thought:
If you would change the label on the bottel from Coke to Fanta and paint the cap orange … would people then just accept it as just a wee bit different Fanta but definitely not a Coke?